AVAILABILITY OF TRIAL TRANSCRIPTS - THE RECENT TIMELINE

24 September, 2023

'Bob Ruff podcast'

During this discussion, Bob Ruff notes that 'court files', are readily available in the U.S., to which Sandra Lean responds:

"No, they're not made public over here, at all.

Certain documents, like the appeal documents, are made public, but that's it.

And trial transcripts are massively expensive, hugely and although I have the defence papers, it's actually an offence for me to share them, to third parties who are not directly working on this case.

So, if we were to put them on line, for example, they're gonna come through me. Simple as that and that's why I can take excerpts and I can show excerpts, but the minute I start to put full documents out, that's when I cross the line".

Circa 4:45 minutes into the full interview recording.

15 October, 2023

'Bob Ruff podcast'

Sandra Lean begins:

The first question is actually not on the list, it only came up in the last couple of days.

You will remember that, at the very beginning, you asked about the availability of transcripts in Scotland and the cost.

And I find, just the other day, 'The Transcript of Criminal Proceedings in Scotland Order', which specifies that:

"the court will only release of transcripts, if satisfied that the person, who falls within a specified class of person and intends to use it for a specified purpose only".

So, if anyone wants to list who are specified people and what are specified purposes and we are not the specified people.

Bub Ruff queries: "So, regardless of cost, we couldn't get them...".

Sandra Lean affirms:

No.

So to give you an idea, specified persons, specified class of persons:

- the prosecutor

- any person convicted

- any other person named in, or immediately affected by any order made by the court

- or, any person authorised or acting on behalf of any person.

So, there's two of them we could use, but even if we do, we don't fit specified persons.

(End of extract)

This would appear to be the 1993 legislation quoted.

However, only two years later, a relaxation in those restrictions was the subject of 1995 legislation, which permitted public availability of transcripts, from trial proceedings which had taken place in an open court.

Specifically:

Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995

This Act allows anyone who is not a person convicted at Trial to apply under this section of the Act to obtain a copy of a transcript for any part of the proceedings that has been held in open court. Open court is a court or trial to which members of the public can freely attend.

(End)

ADDENDUM:

Directly continuing from:

Sandra Lean: So, there's two of them we could use, but even if we do, we don't fit specified persons.

Bob Ruff: The purpose being for their to be shared publicly?

Sandra Lean: (Unintelligibe) that's not a specified purpose.

So it's all things like the court of human rights, an appeal for mercy, that sort of thing.

So those are the specified purposes, so even if we had some money, we wouldn't get through those hoops, to qualify to get them.

But in terms of money, they cost about one hundred and ten pounds an hour in terms of transcription to get it transcript.

Now there are well over 200 hours of evidence in Luke's case,

Transcripts take about three hours to transcribe per hour of evidence, so we're away over the sixty thousand pounds mark and given (unintelligible) right now, I would rather that money was spent on getting these samples tested, than going after (unintelligible), we can't get anyway.

So, I just thought I would throw that one in, to begin.

Bob Ruff: So to my understanding is, that even Luke's defence does not have the transcripts?

Sandra Lean: No. We have probably... about eighty percent of the transcripts, but we are bound (unintelligible) to use them for.

Bob Ruff: Right, so you can't share them, but you have them for him to use in his legal defence?

Sandra Lean: That's why I have been able to quote from transcripts, verbatim, but like I said last time, if I were to put the whole transcripts up, that's where we cross the line, unfortunately.

(End of extract).

Circa 2:00 minutes into the full audio recording.

29 October 2023

Sandra Lean update, via video:

Before I go onto that, I want to talk about transcripts, 'cause apparently there's been a lot of discussion about transcripts.

I don't want, or need, to apply for the transcripts.

Why would I.

I already have them.

There's no need for me to try and get a hold of transcripts.

I think the conversation came... initially came up when I was speaking with Bob Ruff and we had been discussing how easily that sort of information is available to anybody who wants it in the States and I was explaining  to Bob that it's completely different over here and if anybody else wants to try and get a hold of the transcripts... and just going through all of the issues that that would involve, so that's where that... that conversation started.

It nothing to do with me trying to obtain transcripts... I've got them all, why would I need them.

But... I have no issue with anybody else that wants to go and try to get anything to do with this case.. 

Have at it...

I wish you the best of luck... 

Got no issue with that at all.

(End of extract).

Whilst archive documents, the significance of actual court transcripts, is enabling access to finer details and inherent nuances.

The fact that transcripts have long been available, is not new.

The fact this has become clarified is only a recent development and hence topical.

Additionally, although Sandra Lean assures Bob Ruff that the cost of transcribing court proceedings might be £60,000, Sandra has, as cited above, confirmed trial proceedings have already been transcribed - quoting around 80% -and these are statedly present costs for copies of existing documents.

Some of the actual trial evidence, is now available to view here.